Nomhle Ngwenya: At the forefront of STEM

Chinyere Opia 0:15

Welcome to Science in Africa. This is a Nature Africa podcast for African scientists and Africans interested in science. If you're interested in knowing about the science landscape in Africa, and what is happening, this is the podcast for you. I am Chinyere Opia. On the show today, we'll discuss the current state of African women in the fields of science, technology, engineering and mathematics, simply known as STEM. We'll explore ways to promote a more equitable and inclusive environment for women in STEM. We'll delve into the challenges and trials of these women and discover the incredible contributions they are making to shape our world. Today, we'll highlight the story and experience of a young science researcher. She'll share a personal experience and talk about the unique challenges she's had to face as a woman in her field. Let's meet our researcher.

Nomhle Ngwenya 1:12

I'm Nomhle Ngwenya. I recently just completed my PhD last year at Wits University. And I'm a young, passionate researcher, female researcher, passionate about climate finance, climate issues in Africa. I really do believe that since we are the most impacted continent, because of climate change, we need to be at the forefront in terms of coming up with innovative solutions to address the challenges that we face in our continent. In a nutshell, I am also just a friend, I'm a daughter, very inquisitive. So, besides academia, I really love the outdoors. I really also, I'm just a core African at heart. I'm very passionate about everything that has to do with our continent. So yeah, that is who I am.

Chinyere Opia 2:01

That's pretty amazing. So, what inspired you about STEM as a career choice?

Nomhle Ngwenya 2:06

So, I think one of the most important things that we sometimes undervalue, or overlook is actually family structure and the amount of support you have as a family. So, I being the only child, I had massive support from my parents. My parents really invested highly in my education. But I was never raised, Chinyere, to always think that I'm not able, or I don't have the potential to be whatever or do whatever. I had a father who, instead of buying me baby dolls, I would get books to read, I had a mother who installed values of hard working and perseverance. And so when I wanted to embark into the sciences, I was never told that this was going to be hard, or this was going to be challenging. I was always told that if you want to do it, and if you put your mind to it, and you work hard, you will succeed. But also, the opportunities. Going to good schools that gave you the opportunities where certain subjects, like I love geography. I never knew that geography could expose you to things such as climate change, Meteorology, Climatology, all these amazing stuffs and also looking at the sciences as well. So really, really, I think, a great support structure at home, but also being able to have access to good opportunities and good learning opportunities at schools, as well.

Chinyere Opia 3:27

Talking about geography and all those science subjects, some people might have a hard time imagining women undertaking those science subjects. But why do you think women should be in STEM?

Nomhle Ngwenya 3:43

Women have a very, very important role to be in STEM and the reason why I say this is because I've seen it. Once a woman is in STEM or there is representation, they are able to inspire, and bring up other young woman who are also interested. And it goes with the saying that if you educate a woman, you literally educate the whole community in the village. And that's definitely true. Women have such role, and that they're able to transfer the knowledge and open, discard any barriers that are there. But the huge problem that we are finding is that there's a lack of representation in STEM. So, I remember when I was doing my PhD, Chinyere, I kid you not, I was supervised by a black male, professor, Danny Simatele. And he believed in me so much, but he was a black male in an institution where there were only whites professors, but there was no black female and so the lack of representation also is a challenge. But women have such I think, a unique skill, in that, once they participate in STEM, they are able to be in platforms where they're able to inspire not just only females, but also males as well to also break through those barriers into so called privileged or are historically disadvantaged spaces in academia or in STEM professional spaces.

Chinyere Opia 5:06

Now you shared your experience with your professor who supervised your research, you already hinted that women are kind of underrepresented in STEM. But why is this the case?

Nomhle Ngwenya 5:18

You know, I think it really does go back to the social, economic and political barriers, especially that we're facing, and I speak more being in African context where we still live in very patriarchal societies and communities. Where women are, instead of going to school, they are expected to look after the household. If they are of childbearing ages, they're meant to get married and have children, and sort of, that's the typical, stereotypical, patriarchal view of what women are meant to be. And so, there's a lack of opportunities where you are not encouraged to go to school, you're not encouraged to pursue the sciences. You're not encouraged to be who you want to be and if you want to be the super woman, be sort of discouraged. Because there's always, I know, in South Africa, we always joke about it but I remember when I was doing my PhD studies, I got told by family members, and people telling me that you know, you're doing a PhD, who's gonna want to marry you? You're gonna intimidate many men. You probably not even going to have time to have children. And these are sort of questions and comments that also come from the stereotypical society that we live in that, as a woman, you are only supposed to do professions that are socially acceptable and so there's a lot of social, political, economic barriers. Another thing is economics. The economic times that we're living in today, I don't think there's a lot of support given to women who want to pursue either engineering, science, mathematics, in terms of scholarships, in terms of bursaries. But also, Chinyere, I always say that information is power. But if you are not exposed to social circles, you're not exposed to communities where that information is infiltrated, there is no way of you knowing, and there's no way of you then pursuing those opportunities. So, the economy is also a barrier, which also leads to lack of information and our societal barriers. I mean, we do live in very, very patriarchal societies in Africa. And culture as well plays a huge role. If you grow up in a culture where you are socialized that as a woman, I'm only supposed to be a mother, I'm only supposed to be a wife. But there is no profession, there is no wanting to win a Nobel Prize or wanting to break barriers. So, culture as well, cultures also do play a role in sometimes hindering us. So, social, political, economic, and cultural factors do hinder women in accessing careers in STEM.

Chinyere Opia 7:45

You know, it's quite interesting that you're mentioning these barriers and challenges, social-cultural, socio-economic, the stereotypes also about roles for women and roles for men. But in your case, do you think it would have been easier in your journey, if you were male?

Nomhle Ngwenya 8:07

No. And the reason why I say this is because especially in the sciences, it's still very much male dominated and male dominated all the way from just being at university in those spaces where you're doing those courses. But also looking at who is teaching you. I remember being taught by mostly males and not females. And so, I feel that it would be much easier if I was a male to be able to access those opportunities, because I already have my own gender, having those opportunities and living out to those experiences. So no, I think if I was male, definitely it would have been so much more easier and being able to access those opportunities as well.

Chinyere Opia 8:50

Wow, that is truly worrisome. Is that why some people have reported that women in science are still paid less, promoted less and even access fewer grants? How true is this in your experience?

Nomhle Ngwenya 9:04

So, you know Chinyere, the interesting thing is because there's a lack of representation of women in academia, I truly then believe that there is also a problem with the institutional capacity in order to sort of, populate the data and the stats of how many women are occupying STEM spaces, but also the amount of grants that are being given to females. So, I, you know, in just my understanding is that if there is a grant that is being given out, and I’ve seen this before, is that there is no amount that is allocated to whether you're female or male. It's a grant for climate change. It's allocated to a university professor or a senior researcher. And I think we still need a long way to go especially in in universities in developing countries, to be able to have certain data will be populating when you're measuring how many grants are given to black females? How many grants are given to black males? So, it speaks to the institutional capacity problem. But also, in terms of promotion, again, with the lack of women in institutions and representing STEM, I also think that there's a lack of training given to females as well, in terms of how do you access opportunities? Again, it goes back to the whole question of is it easier for me to access those opportunities? 100%. Because there's already a privileged club of men who are able to have those opportunities, able to have those discussions and able to then advance their careers, and not so much with women. So, I think we still need a long way to go in terms of building up institutional capacity, but allocating resources to empower women as well, to move up the STEM professional or academic spaces and ladder.

Chinyere Opia 10:51

Now, speaking about available opportunities. You have spoken about challenges facing the girl child in Africa. In your case, you were discouraged from pursuing a PhD. In many African countries, education of the girl child is not given the attention it deserves. For many who get an education, STEM might not be an attainable option. How do we encourage more women in STEM?

Nomhle Ngwenya 11:16

You know Chinyere, I also touched on this, and this is something that I'm very passionate about is information. Information is power, and education. And this is also where things like mentoring come in. So once women have attained those important positions in power, in in STEM, I think it's very important for them to create spaces where they go back to the communities, they go back to, in South Africa, we have rural areas and townships, where you educate and you give speeches, or you just create mentoring groups to young woman who want to access those resources. And by accessing those resources really, is just even guiding them as to what subjects you should be choosing at the high school level? Identifying what careers are also available in STEM? What alternative paths are also available there? So really, education, information is power and really just going back. I think sometimes we; I find that we also have females whom once they've attained positions of power, sometimes also forget their roots and where they come from. And it's so important to give back, to go back, and to bring along another girl child and to show her that this is my journey. This is where I've been through, and this is attainable. And I think stories like that we underestimate, but they give so much hope and they inspire other young girls. If I was living in the rural areas, and my childhood was tough, I had grown up in tough socio-economic circumstances and now I then become a successful engineer, when I go back to my rural community, I'm able to inspire those young girls that despite whatever conditions you face, one day, you can actually attain or even achieve greater than I have had. So, mentorship, going back to the communities and again, information is power. And information is power, especially in places that we call or are considered not privileged to having the information.

Chinyere Opia 13:15

Speaking about information. The United Nations General Assembly adopted February 11, as the International Day of Women and girls in science. The reason for this is to achieve full and equal access to and participation in science for women and girls and further achieve gender equality and empowerment of women and girls. With some of the challenges we have mentioned today, especially in the African continent, do you think this goal is achievable?

Nomhle Ngwenya 13:42

Chinyere, I, you know, with the initiatives that I've seen and the amount of African women who are so passionate about the field, I definitely do feel it is possible. It may not be possible, maybe in my lifetime, where we have, you know, 100% participation in gender equality. But I definitely feel that even in your daughter's lifetime, we may see that. And the nice thing is we even have guiding documents which point to the support of gender equality and participation of women in STEM through things such as the African Union agenda 2063 plan, which really highlights the need for more African woman to participate in in science and mathematics. So, it is an achievable goal, but it will not just only require females supporting this and having the groups, it will also require men, changing the societal expectations of women and also then being in those powerful positions to be able to support black females wanting to participate in the STEM careers.

Chinyere Opia 14:46

You just brought up another vital issue for discourse. Promoting African researchers. African researchers are making significant contributions to science. How can your work be promoted and recognized globally?

Nomhle Ngwenya 14:59

100%. And again, this speaks to the issue of transformation. So, if you look at some of the big journals, you've got Nature, you've got Elsevier, you have Science Direct, and you look at who are the panels who are sitting there and really evaluating African research? And you will actually find that some of the professors and some of the big names are actually not African researchers, not African professors. And so there needs to be a lot of transformation that goes through to ensure that there is representation of our own, on such panel boards on the reviewing processes to ensure that there is authenticity of African research that is published. And so I do believe that transformation should be number one on the agenda, not just only transformation in terms of how many African females or black females are in STEM careers, but also what are we transforming from an editing perspective, from a review perspective, from panel discussions on key topics and to ensure that we also are represented and be able to tell our own African stories from our own narrative view.

Chinyere Opia 16:07

Going back to African females in STEM. Assume a young female scientist beginning her career in STEM is listening to you right now? What advice would you give her, possibly something you wish you had known when you first started your academic journey?

Nomhle Ngwenya 16:24

You know what Chinyere, I would always say, don't give up. I'm here because I didn't give up. I'm here because it was tough. It's not an easy journey that much I'm going to be very honest. I'm not going to say, it's roses, and it's the sun shining all day. It's not, it's tough. It requires a lot of sacrifice, but it is so worth it. So, work hard. Always, always persevere, and never give up on yourself. And I think, when I say yourself, importantly, is the young African girl. Always remind yourself of the woman that you want to be and the woman that you envisioned yourself to be and achieve. And I've always told myself, I want to be a woman of impact. And so, I never swayed away from that vision. It was very strong, but I also had a support structure that made sure that I never forget that. So, always believe in yourself and I think sometimes, as women, we sometimes like to also dismay our capabilities. I think there's so much more that we can do. And if you believe in yourself, you literally, literally can achieve your heart's desires.

Chinyere Opia 17:30

Thank you, Dr Ngwenya. African women and girls in STEM face unique challenges, including societal and cultural barriers, lack of access to education and resources, and under representation in the field. However, like our researcher has shown today, there are many inspiring stories of success and determination among African women in STEM, who are making significant contributions to their field and serving as role models for future generations. It is important for society to continue to support and encourage the participation of African women and girls in STEM through initiatives such as mentorship programs, scholarships, and targeted outreach efforts. With the right support and opportunities, African women and girls have the potential to make invaluable contributions to the advancement of science and technology and to help shape a brighter future for all. That is all for today's podcasts. If you are interested in more stories like this and other science-based articles, check out our Nature Africa website at nature.com/natafrica. I am Chinyere Opia. Thank you for listening.